“I Was Taught to Hate Jews—Then I Met One”

[RAWAN OSMAN]: When I turned and I saw four religious Jewish men, because they were dressed in black and white and they have long peyos and black hats, I had my first and last panic attack. I did not know what a panic attack is. I just left my shopping and my bag that had my passport and my wallet, and I stormed out of the store. I was red, sweaty, and out of breath.

And I thought to myself, that was stupid. So I decided to compose myself and to go back and to lie to the storekeeper to tell him that I forgot my wallet. I continued shopping as if nothing happened.

I went to pay, and the storekeeper asked me, where do you come from? So as there is no way out of that, I told him I am half Syrian, half Lebanese. And he asked me pleasantly, how long have you lived in the neighborhood? And I pointed at the house, and I told him I just arrived today.

And he smiled. He smiled, and he continued talking. It was small talk. He helped me with my bags. And I knew from his smile that he understood exactly what happened earlier. And yet, instead of being offended, he allowed me to save face. And by doing so, without intending to, that gentleman on that afternoon converted me from an enemy to an ally.

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[SAM LEVINE]: Welcome to Touro Talks. I'm Sam Levine, professor of law and director of the Jewish Law Institute at Touro Law Center. Today we will be speaking with Rawan Osman. Rawan Osman was born in Damascus to a Syrian father and a Lebanese mother.

She was raised in Lebanon amidst very antisemitic and anti-Israel circumstances as a supporter of Hezbollah. When she was in her 20s, Rawan visited France, and for the first time, she met Jewish people and began to study Jewish history, which led her to a transformation in her perspective of Israel, of Jewish people, and of the world.

Over time, Rawan became a strong Zionist, and after the events and the attacks of October 7, Rawan's outspoken criticism of Hamas and her support of Israel cost her close relationships among friends and family. Rawan continues to be an outspoken advocate for Israel on social media and in appearances around the world. Welcome to Touro Talks, Rawan.

[RAWAN OSMAN]: Thank you so much.

[SAM LEVINE]: And before we begin our conversation, I would like to note that we are recording today's program on March 24, and we recognize that between today and the date that the podcast airs, there may be changes-- significant changes in world events that will affect the situation of many of the topics that we will be discussing.

So welcome again, Rawan. It's so nice to have you with us here. I'd like to begin our conversation, going back to some of your history and this amazing journey that you've had. If you could tell us a bit more about where you were born, where you were raised, and how that affected your perspective on the world.

[RAWAN OSMAN]: Thank you so much for having me. As you mentioned, I was born in Damascus, although we lived in Lebanon. My siblings, my three younger siblings, were born in Zahlé. I was born in Damascus because in 1984, the IDF was advancing in Lebanese territory.

And I'm mentioning this because it is relevant, and it helps explain why I was one of Hezbollah's biggest fans and why I identify as a recovering antisemite today, not because I'm proud of being an antisemite in the past, not because I'm proud of being a fan of Hezbollah, but because I'd like everyone to understand where this hatred came from.

So I grew up fond of Hezbollah, perceiving them as heroes, the only ones who dared defy the occupiers, because Israel indeed occupied South Lebanon, and Hezbollah were the only ones who defied that status quo, and occasionally, and I'm not proud of this, would dare kidnap or kill one of the soldiers, the Israeli soldiers. We were not told that Israel occupied the south after more than 10 years of restraint, of relying on diplomacy to stop terror attacks against Israeli civilians.

What I mean, for those who do not remember or who are too young to know, for more than a decade, the PLO, led by Yasser Arafat, abused Lebanese territory, Lebanese hospitality, together with Arabs-- religious but also secular Arabs. They trained in camps, often visited, accompanied, by radical leftists from around the world, from Germany where I live today, but also from Italy and from as far as Japan.

The Lod massacre that took place in today's Ben Gurion Airport was carried out by two Japanese, members of the Red Army faction, who came all the way from Tokyo with machine guns with the intention of killing Israelis. Instead, they mostly killed Christian pilgrims who came from South America.

So after 10 years of those people training and occasionally sending men and women to infiltrate Israeli territory to target Israeli civilians, hoping to terrorize the Jews and to force them to leave the land, and after the operations expanded to Europe and South America, targeting Israeli diplomats and their family members, Israel gave up on diplomacy and decided to create a buffer zone in South Lebanon up to the Litani River.

The Litani River-- that is a name we read until this day, every day, because the IDF is trying to do exactly the same, to push-- until this day, to push armed factions behind the lines of the Litani River so that if armed factions launched rockets into Israel, it would not land in northern communities, killing Israelis.

I did not know all this. But also, growing up in Lebanon, and because my parents wanted us to have the best education, we were sent to a French Catholic school, which is common not only in Lebanon, but also in South America until this day. Missionary schools provided the best education.

And in this Catholic school that I attended, every year, before Pesach-- Passover, that is coming soon-- the entire school would gather in the big theater, and we would watch the same film every day um every year-- excuse me-- about the passions of the Christ-- not the one, the version Mel Gibson produced-- an older version, but not less graphic.

And the message it left us with is that the Jews could have spared the life of baby Jesus. Instead, they chose to spare the life of a thug when the Romans offered them that possibility. So that was a different layer of antisemitism that was ingrained in our bones. Add to that that before you develop critical thinking-- and in Lebanon, we have one curriculum. Whether you attend a private or a public school, you all learn the same thing.

So around the age 12, 13, before you develop critical thinking, we learned the story of Palestine in history class. And the story goes over three pages, and it taught us the name of the antagonist in the story of Palestine.

So everyone learned the name of Theodor Herzl, who invented something called Zionism. According to his plan, the Jews were to come from Eastern Europe, where they originate. They were to move to the Middle East and take Palestine from the Palestinians.

We learned the content and the date of the Balfour Declaration, and we learned the date of the First World Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland, which implied that the West enabled the Zionist project.

And we internalized the most problematic aspect of this simplistic story-- that Palestine was a country, that the Palestinians were a people stripped from their land. So that's another reason why we hated Israel and the Jews.

Also, growing up, everybody, whether on the left or right side of the political spectrum, told a consistent story about the Jews, the Zionists, and the Israelis. And I make sure I mention those three terms because they are used interchangeably in the Arab world. It is a farce. We do not make a distinction between Jewish, Zionist, and Israeli.

So if we are told a consistent story by all the intelligent people who surround us-- our parents, the teachers, the professors, the famous and intelligent ones who speak on TV, the smart ones who write in newspapers-- why would we doubt what we're told about the Jews?

And add a very important point-- add that there were no Jews living among us to contest what was said about them. More than 850,000 Jews were uprooted, driven out of the Arab world. So there was nobody left to contest the stereotype that seemed to be reality in my world.

And the last point I'm mentioning, especially that you are a professor of law-- a point that seems to be unknown to many Israelis as well, to my astonishment-- anti-normalization laws and policies.

So after Israel was established in 1948, after five Arab countries waged war against Israel and miraculously lost, the Arab world developed a strategy to isolate Israel and to eventually drive them to leave. They embedded in constitutions and basic laws anti-normalization laws and policies forbidding people-to-people contact between the citizens of those countries and Israelis, even abroad.

So to give an example, a Lebanese, a Kuwaiti, an Algerian, an Iraqi meet an Israeli in Canada or in the UK, France, you name it, at university in a pub. They are forbidden from speaking to them by law.

We all recall how ISIS burnt alive a Jordanian pilot in a cage. I'm mentioning this to remind you of a story many are familiar with. Former Miss Iraq Sarah Idan took a selfie with former Miss Israel. That was many years ago.

Sarah Idan had to leave Iraq together with her family because of the death threats they received. And she's one of very few Iraqis, if not the only one, who was stripped from her citizenship, unlike Iraqis who joined ISIS, who killed a Jordanian pilot alive in a cage.

So these anti-normalization laws and policies are serious, and I think they contributed to the systematic dehumanization of Israelis, Zionists, and Jews to the point that when October 7 took place, many Arabs saw the video footage shared by Hamas on social media, and they failed to summon any empathy for the Jews or the Zionists and the Israelis.

[SAM LEVINE]: Well, Rawan, given that background, given the atmosphere where you were born, where you were raised, the circumstances that you were taught, and the very one-sided and inaccurate history, what changed? What was it about your experiences in France that transformed your perspective on Israel, on Jewish people, on the world as a whole?

[RAWAN OSMAN]: As you said, I grew up in a world where the Israeli narrative, but also the Jewish narrative, is completely omitted. And I left the Middle East to France because I spoke French, because it was the natural choice when I wanted to take a course in Europe, as a fan of Hezbollah, as an antisemite.

And I landed in the Jewish quarter in Strasbourg, near one of the biggest synagogues in Europe. And I knew where my accommodation was, but I did not think that Jews lived in the Jewish quarter, because there were no more Jews in the Jewish quarter in Beirut, because there were no more Jews living in the Jewish quarter in Damascus.

And on the first day, I arrived. I went down across the street to a small grocery store to buy food. And I was filling my trolley, happy because I found the same ingredients I needed to cook. I found the same spices.

I did not know what a kosher store was, so I did not connect the dots until I heard men enter the store. And I was thinking in the back of my head, they were not speaking French. And it took me a few seconds to realize that they were speaking Hebrew.

How would I know that they spoke Hebrew? I've never spoken to a Jew. I have never spoken to an Israeli at that point. I was transported back into our living room when I was a child in the Beqaa Valley, back when we had big, boxy televisions that had antennas that we needed to adjust to watch 20 minutes of cartoon in the afternoon.

And sometimes when we adjusted the antennas, we got signal from Israel. We didn't understand a word. They were mostly biblical cartoons. But we watched. However, if an adult walked into the room, they would change the channel because we were watching Israeli television. On that afternoon, I realized that even the language was associated with taboo in my subconscious, and potentially in every Arab's subconscious.

When I turned and I saw four religious Jewish men, because they were dressed in black and white and they have long peyes and black hats, I had my first and last panic attack. I did not know what a panic attack is.

I just left my shopping and my bag that had my passport and my wallet. And I stormed out of the store, crossed the street without looking left and right, went up to the third floor where my bedroom was in that house, and I locked the door. I was telling myself to breathe.

Then I saw myself in the mirror. I was red, sweaty and out of breath. And I thought to myself, that was stupid, especially that I had to go back for my personal belongings.

So I decided to compose myself and to go back and to lie to the storekeeper to tell him that I forgot my wallet. And that's exactly what I did. The men had left. I continued shopping as if nothing happened.

I went to pay, and the storekeeper asked me, where do you come from? And I thought, now he's gonna have a panic attack. So I tried to be vague, and I said, from the Middle East.

And he asked me where from. He was insisting. So as there is no way out of that, I told him, I am half Syrian, half Lebanese. And he asked me pleasantly, how long have you lived in the neighborhood? And I pointed out the house, and I told him I just arrived today.

And he smiled. He smiled, and he continued talking. It was small talk. He helped me with my bags. And I knew from his smile that he understood exactly what happened earlier. And yet, instead of being offended, he allowed me to save face.

And by doing so, without intending to, that gentleman on that afternoon converted me from an enemy to an ally. That simple act of kindness allowed me to return to that space.

Had he reacted differently, I would have looked for a different accommodation elsewhere. I would have left thinking, of course-- typical Jew. We shouldn't be communicating, even.

But when I went back to my room, and over the coming days and weeks, I thought why my body reacted this way. And I realized that, for the first time in my life in my mid-20s, I was sharing the same space with a Jew, the enemy.

And imagine-- that was the first time in my life I asked myself, but why is the Jew the enemy-- I've never spoken to a Jew-- only to realize the obvious. Everything I knew about the Jews and about Israel, and of course, about the Zionists, I learned from the former Secretary General of Hezbollah.

In his lengthy speeches, he told us everything we knew about those Jews, whether in a historical or religious context or in a political context, always quoting Haaretz, the radical left in Israel, saying, see-- this is what the Jews say. This is what the Israelis are saying. And that constructed my skewed perception of Israel and the Jews.

And I decided to do my homework, having access to uncensored information in Europe. And I started relearning the history of our region, which shattered my worldview.

First it was a battle against my ego because I understood that it is our people who were the assailants, the aggressors. Tens of thousands of lives could have been spared had my people, had the Arabs and the Muslims, agreed to share the land with the Jews who do not originate in Eastern Europe, who are indigenous to the Middle East.

And that seemed so obvious to me because that is a fact every Christian knows. That's a fact every Muslim who reads the Koran knows about Bnai Yisrael. And yet we believed the most absurd lies, internalized it, and joined the ranks of the enemies of Israel. So it took a lot of work, a lot of reading, many, many, many years. But that epiphany, that moment, that first encounter definitely changed the trajectory of my life.

[SAM LEVINE]: So Rawan, that part of your life was already a remarkable journey. And your description of first meeting Jewish people when you arrived in France and that personal connection is a powerful reminder to us of just how important that interpersonal relationship can be in building these bridges between different societies, potentially between enemies, and perhaps optimistically looking toward reconciliation.

But the reality is, as we know, and moving ahead to your experiences around the time of October 7 and in reacting to the attacks on October 7, what were your feelings at the time? How did you speak out publicly, and how did that affect your personal relationships with friends and family?

[RAWAN OSMAN]: I will answer your question, but I'd like to give you a little background for before October 7. My journey between 2011 and 2023 made me a lot of Jewish and Israeli friends, especially in that historical moment where the Abraham Accords were signed, where we had hope once we realized that an alternative vision was in the making, was forged, established.

An alternative vision to the apocalyptic genocidal one pushed-- advanced, rather-- since 1979, especially since Khomeini established the Islamic Republic in Iran and formed this Axis of Resistance, as it's called, this alliance of evil led by the Islamic Republic of Iran, but also joined by Hezbollah in Lebanon; Houthis in Yemen; the Assad regime until its toppling December 8, 2024; and Iraqi militias; et cetera-- many actors around the world.

Now there was a new alliance together with Israel, promising a different future for the future generations. But throughout the years, I kept telling the Jews who thought that Holocaust education is the antidote for global antisemitism that it is not sufficient. It is important, but it is not sufficient.

And I think those Jews who disagreed back then understood what I meant when they heard masses chanting in Sydney, Australia, "Gas the Jews!" I was telling them for years that many around the globe know what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, and they are upset with the Nazis because they did not finish the job.

Many in the Arab world know what the Nazis did. Otherwise, why would you have a chain in the so-called Palestinian territories named after Hitler-- Hitler 1, Hitler 2. They knew what happened to the Jews.

It was not sufficient, and we needed a more aggressive approach to try and combat rampant antisemitism in the Arab world. I thought that I understood the urgency. But unfortunately, even people who thought like me did not understand how critical and acute the situation was.

October 7 happened. I woke up in the morning and started scrolling in disbelief, mostly watching what Hamas shared, filmed and shared, in Arabic before the Israelis even knew what hit them, before the fighting stopped. I could not believe that such a breach of security can happen, knowing the reputation of the IDF and the Mossad.

But it happened. It happened, and it shook us to our core, and then we understood the scale of the screw-up that took place that day. But it is not the time until today to understand how-- what led to that moment.

Israel haven't even started healing, because that moment, October 7, was not just an attack on Israelis. It was very different from everything that happens prior to October 7.

It's not merely an attack led by Hamas intending to inflict maximum pain on Israel, to terrorize them as usual and drive a few to leave the country. Hamas were the buffoons who kickstarted the process that is meant as a final war against Israel and Western civilization, even if that meant sacrificing thousands, tens of thousands, and even more.

It was meant to drain Israel psychologically and economically. And I watched what happened and started speaking up, telling people, this will not end. This is the moment that marks the beginning of the third World War. You do not understand political Islam if you do not understand what I'm telling you.

And this is continuing, unfortunately, until today. And fortunately, an American administration during this crisis stands with Israel-- at least that. Otherwise, the dream, the aim of October 7 would have materialized long ago, had Israel not have a few, but strong allies around the world. Every professional who served in the army or who works in counter-terrorism understands exactly why Israel is doing what it's doing, why the USA is helping Israel today.

Is there hope for a better future? Of course. I'm very optimistic. I became vocal after October 7 as a woman, as a mother who refuses to live in a world where what took place on October 7 is tolerated.

I mentioned ISIS earlier-- the beheadings, the executions that were filmed, including burning a Jordanian pilot alive. But even ISIS members covered their faces and did not display glee in the background.

Hamas took monstrosity to a completely new level where they displayed a lot of joy and pride while they mutilated and killed infants, elderly-- not only soldiers. But they also showed their faces, and they got away with it unless killed in war by Israel.

They started a trend that was replicated elsewhere by jihadists. And I told this, and I said it many, many times on social media and in my public speeches. If jihadists dared do what they've done to Israelis who have the IDF to protect them, just imagine what they are going to do to the rest of us in the Middle East and in the world.

And believe it or not, less than a year later, the same trend started happening in Syria against non-Muslims, Alawites on the Syrian Coast, and then horrors against the Druze community in South Syria. And it continued to humiliate the Christians in the entire country.

And lastly-- and this didn't stop-- lastly, against the Kurds in Northern Syria, where people were jihadists are recording, showing their faces, smiling, showing what they're committing, knowing that they gonna get away with it in our passive world.

This cannot continue, so I remembered the storekeeper in Strasbourg who changed my life through a simple act of kindness. And I told myself, I always thought I'm a single person. How can I-- how can I bring change about?

And I remembered that that man, without intending to, as I said earlier, changed my life, because our simplest, tiniest actions, if coming from a good place, have a ripple effect in the universe. And we don't necessarily need to understand how it transforms lives around us.

So I became vocal. I went to Israel for the first time, and now I've been to Israel more than 18 times, I think, since October 7. For the first time-- and I was not a public figure. I did not have a large following on social media. I just felt this call in my heart, and I knew that I had to go to Israel, to Jerusalem, to the Kotel.

And I looked around me, and the only word that crossed my mind was hineni. OK, I'm here. Now what? I had no idea how I could help, but I knew that that was exactly where I needed to be.

How my life changed! How many times I spoke at the European Parliament, my speech at the UN, speaking around the world, but also the impact I have on social media, not only on the Jews, but on the Arabs and the Muslims and non-Muslims who approach me around the world and share with me how I changed their lives or the lives of their parents.

And I'm not the single one to do so. Many-- they're not many, but many who spoke up after October 7 who felt compelled to do so are changing our reality by giving hope to those who are feeling desperate, but also by insisting that we will not tolerate a world where jihadists get away with rape, mutilation, murder, et cetera.

And although we are dramatically outnumbered, I truly believe with all my heart that Israel will prevail, and those who support Israel will prevail alongside Israel and the camp it represents, b'ezrat Hashem, no matter how long this takes.

[SAM LEVINE]: Rawan, you do give us hope, and your personal journey can provide some grounds for optimism toward the future. But of course, we now sit, as we speak, amidst an ongoing war and an unprecedented war between the United States and Iran, between Israel and Iran, and between just about the entire Arab world and Iran.

Given your personal journey and your unique perspective, including having been raised in Lebanon, what are your thoughts on the current situation? What are your thoughts on the conflict, the war with Iran, and what are your thoughts in particular on the future of Lebanon and its part in the current war?

[RAWAN OSMAN]: I am as concerned as everyone is, but I knew that this was inevitably going to happen. Before Israel entered Gaza, the prime minister, whether you like him or not-- the prime minister of Israel, gave a speech and made the reference to Amalek.

Now, the enemies of Israel twisted his words to say, ok, now the Israelis made it clear that they're going to kill every woman and child in Gaza. No-- the way I understood it is, that was a reminder to every Jew who knows what Amalek did to the Jewish people throughout history. First, that the Jews survived. Second, that Israel made a decision to destroy the Axis of Resistance.

The Axis of Resistance, this alliance of evil led by the Islamic Republic of Iran, committed suicide on October 7. They wanted the domino effect repercussions of that massacre to lead to the destruction of Israel. Instead, it is leading to their destruction, one after the other, actor after the other.

I do believe that the regime is systematically weakened in Iran, but we're not talking about a football team. This is a very sophisticated regime that inflicted so much pain on tens of millions in our region, that caused so many problems, not only in our region, but also in the West, also in Africa.

They are far reaching, and you can look at the Axis of Resistance as part of an anti-West camp. So they are one of many players who loathe Western civilization, Judeo-Christian values.

It is not a surprise that all the activists, be it Greta Thunberg, or PINKCODE or CODEPINK, or Jewish Voices for Palestine, and all those we heard outraged after Israel entered Gaza-- all those voices for Palestine condemned the war against Iran, sided with Maduro when the USA arrested him, are now supportive of Cuba, would not condemn the invasion of Russia to Ukraine-- of Ukraine. It's not random. It's not a coincidence. This is a camp that hates what we stand for. We are ideological enemies.

That said, I truly believe that we are on the right side of history. And even though masses and the majority of the world is easily manipulated and would not-- doesn't care to do their homework-- its homework before holding strong, uninformed opinions, which leads to more damage around the world, being on the right side of history and having a lot of experts and people excel in their fields on our side gives me hope.

I think we will find a way to navigate out of this mess, but we would need more people to speak up. We need more courage. Unfortunately, Israel is left to do the world's dirty work.

I hear voices who were on our side at the beginning of this war who understood Israel, defended Israel, explained what happened on October 7 who are now condemning the USA joining this war against Iran. These were our allies. They do not understand that what happened on October 7 was a declaration of war, not only against Israel, but against what Israel represents.

It is unfortunate that we are losing more and more friends every day. I hope people find the moral courage to stand with Israel, to appreciate what they're going through.

Because I just left Israel, and 95%-- and I say 95%, not 100% because there is a fifth column in Israel. There are Arabs or radical leftists, also Jews, who wish to bring the system down from within in the country, unfortunately.

But the majority, the vast majority, including Israeli Arabs, understand why the Islamic Republic of Iran must be destroyed unless you want your children and grandchildren to fight a similar war. Kicking the can down the road does not help anymore. It's now or never.

When it comes to our region, going back to Lebanon, I had hoped that more people will find the moral courage to speak against one of the worst and strongest actors of this Axis of Resistance, Hezbollah, who not only inflicted pain on Israelis, but also, and mostly, on the Lebanese.

Even without mentioning Israel, the explosion at the Beirut Harbor was caused by Hezbollah. Until now, the investigation leads to a dead end after another dead end. They brought the Lebanese economy to a halt.

Lebanon is perceived as a failed country, as a failed state because of Hezbollah, because capital escape, because no sane investor is willing to invest again in Lebanon while Hezbollah vows every few weeks, every few months to take Lebanon, to implicate Lebanon, in a war with the Israelis.

And this time, since October 8-- since October 8, 2023, since Hezbollah started launching rockets into Israel, Israel gave the world 11 months to try and stop Hezbollah through diplomacy.

After 11 months, Israel decided-- opted for a military action to try and stop Hezbollah, and then a ceasefire was reached through diplomacy. And still, after Khomeini was assassinated, Hezbollah took Lebanon to a war, to a confrontation with the Israelis again.

Now, I'm not happy when I see a million Lebanese displaced. It breaks my heart. Half of my family is in Lebanon. I have a lot of friends in Lebanon. But it is the responsibility of the Lebanese government to try and stop Hezbollah.

I do not blame Israel when I watch people sleeping together with their children on the streets. Why didn't the Lebanese government do anything after the Bibas family was confirmed dead?

In March 4, 2025, I spoke at the UN. I addressed the Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, and I addressed the Lebanese mission. And I said back then, instead of discussing Hezbollah's role, ban the party.

Back then, the solution is so simple. Stop begging them to disarm. Why would they? They're stronger than the Lebanese army. Why would they hand their weapons over to you? Ban the party. Arrest their leaders. Only now, for the first time ever since Hezbollah was established in the '80s, a couple of its members were arrested on an army checkpoint.

Finally, today, this morning, I read in the news that the Iranian envoy to Lebanon was told he's persona non grata-- given until Sunday to leave the country-- although this should have stopped ages ago. Lebanon should have severed diplomatic ties with the Iranians long ago, for the sake of the Lebanese, not the Israelis.

Hezbollah's new Secretary General should have been arrested because he continues to incite and to inflict damage on the Lebanese. But instead, what are the Lebanese doing, those who are opposed to Hezbollah?

They are relying on the IDF, or on the Israeli air force, to kill the Secretary General. And this attitude is not at all appreciated. I wish more people would understand what the Israelis are going through, and would offer to take a little bit of the weight that Israel is carrying currently on their shoulders.

[SAM LEVINE]: Rawan Osman, thank you for sharing with us your unique perspective, thank you for your courage and thank you for a very thoughtful and informative Touro Talks conversation. Thank you to our Touro Talks sponsors, Robert and Arlene Rosenberg. We greatly appreciate your ongoing support. And thank you to our Touro Talks audience for another Touro Talks conversation.

[RAWAN OSMAN]: Thank you.

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